pickin' and a'grinnin'

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
pickin' and a'grinnin'
« on: June 07, 2017, 02:47:25 PM »
I'll preface this by saying that as a former street racer type tackling his first "serious" hot rod build, my previous bodywork efforts have more or less consisted of knocking the highs down and the lows up, filling it with mud, and breaking out the longboard, so I am relatively new to serious efforts at picking and filing. Building a 750 hp BBC? Porting heads? NO Problem. Picking and filing a panel straight?? Not so much. ::) So this photo may not look like much, but it constitutes something of a breakthrough for me.

I have been GENTLY trying to work this area off and on for a week or so, the small red rectangle was a really nasty ridge, the small red circle next to it was a pronounced low. I had been trying to get the ridge down and the low up in a controlled fashion, without much success. Last night and this morning, I had what I would call a breakthrough. I clamped a ball end dolly in my vise, placed it under under the low, pressed the whole area down onto the dolly with the palm of  my hand, and worked the ridge alternating between a cross-peen and a pick. I finally was unable to "un-lock" the ridge, and actually turned the low into a high, which I had to knock back down with a low-crown hammer against a low crown dolly from the back. I feel like I am finally starting to control the metal here, instead of it controlling me. The big oval next to it was one big low, its now a couple smaller lows with highs in between Theres a sh*tload of work left to do here, but I really feel like I had something of a breakthrough here!

So feel free to add your own picking and filing efforts here! Show me up as the rank amateur I am, hopefully I can learn something here!

TS3X65MPH

  • Hero Member
  • THANKS TO MY DAD & MOM,WIFE GLYNIS & SON STEVEN
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2017, 10:19:31 PM »
You have to remember that your not banging nails into 2x4's.Takes a light touch.
 I would start with clean metal before starting on any metal work. ;)
 Bye the way,Is this your T ?
You Aren't Living If Your Windshield Isn't Dirty.

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 09:48:02 AM »
You have to remember that your not banging nails into 2x4's.Takes a light touch.
 I would start with clean metal before starting on any metal work. ;)
 Bye the way,Is this your T ?
It is my T. I think I have the "light touch" part down, I think the secret for me was finally getting enough pressure on the dolly. The ridge ran into the raised bead for the door line, I am no expert but I think that was why it was so difficult to get leveled out. The dark area I am working has the rust cleaned off, I wiped it with old engine oil so it would give some contrast between the highs and lows. I should have cleaned the area on the door, I got so excited when I finally got that ridge and adjacent low spot roughed in, I jumped to the low spot on the door. I got a little carried away ;D I will get back on the cowl area this morning. Pretty normal for old Model T stuff nowadays, but the body on this thing is like a sack of hockey pucks! ::)

TS3X65MPH

  • Hero Member
  • THANKS TO MY DAD & MOM,WIFE GLYNIS & SON STEVEN
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 10:58:38 AM »
You have to remember that your not banging nails into 2x4's.Takes a light touch.
 I would start with clean metal before starting on any metal work. ;)
 Bye the way,Is this your T ?
It is my T. I think I have the "light touch" part down, I think the secret for me was finally getting enough pressure on the dolly. The ridge ran into the raised bead for the door line, I am no expert but I think that was why it was so difficult to get leveled out. The dark area I am working has the rust cleaned off, I wiped it with old engine oil so it would give some contrast between the highs and lows. I should have cleaned the area on the door, I got so excited when I finally got that ridge and adjacent low spot roughed in, I jumped to the low spot on the door. I got a little carried away ;D I will get back on the cowl area this morning. Pretty normal for old Model T stuff nowadays, but the body on this thing is like a sack of hockey pucks! ::)
A great book is The Key to Metal Bumping by Frank T.Sargent.My Dad was a Body Man.Some of my friends are quite good.Ths kinda stuff drives me crazy.
You Aren't Living If Your Windshield Isn't Dirty.

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 11:08:55 AM »
A great book is The Key to Metal Bumping by Frank T.Sargent.My Dad was a Body Man.Some of my friends are quite good.Ths kinda stuff drives me crazy.
[/quote]
I have it, it is very good. Heres the tenative plan for today, I will pick up the lows marked in red x's from behind with a flat dolly on the front of the panel, then put an hourglass dolly behind the big low marked by the red oval, and try to hammer down the surrounding high spots in green x's. Or should I try to rough the whole panel in closer before I move on to the small lows around the area I just worked?

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 02:11:29 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not going to continue with a "hammer blow by hammer blow" account, but I figured I would show this as a follow on to the other posts, this is really coming along IMO.

to backtrack a bit, this is the original damage, the red circle is the area I am working as it originally looked, with the crease in the center of the red oval. Almost looks like someone hit the panel from the inside with a chisel, it was very distinct and pronounced, with LOTS of surrounding distortion. Worst spot on the panel, which is why I started there.


This is after some more work this morning, held a low crown dolly on the back of the panel and hammered down some of the highs on dolly, as soon as I heard the dolly "tink" I moved to another spot. The area I am working is actually starting to look pretty good.


At this point, I have very lightly "blocked" the area with 220 grit on a file, the green line represents the position of the original crease, the two ovals are distinct lows, and the green arrow shows the direction the low below the original crease is still pulling the panel. The original crease was about .080 above the surrounding panel, the lows are pretty shallow now, like .010-.015. I will try to work those two lows out, and take the highs down a little more, shoot another guide coat and sand again, at that point, I think this immediate area will be good enough to file, so I will move on to roughing in the rest of the panel. Later I will come back and spray a guide coat over the whole area, go over it with a longboard with 220, and if everything looks good, I will finish with a file.


jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 02:27:16 PM »
A light just went on. Instead of trying to bring up the lows in the area right around where the crease was, my next blows will be on the big lows surrounding that area. I have a hunch that the low to the right in this photo is especially holding the distortion in the area around the original crease. I think if I release the tension there, the high immediately to its left will come down, and some of the lows below the crease might even come out of their own accord.

TS3X65MPH

  • Hero Member
  • THANKS TO MY DAD & MOM,WIFE GLYNIS & SON STEVEN
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 04:23:28 PM »
Went by East Bay Speed & Custom early today.
The body was blasted & now there ruffing it up a bit & then they will start on the metal work.
You Aren't Living If Your Windshield Isn't Dirty.

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 05:35:15 PM »
Went by East Bay Speed & Custom early today.
The body was blasted & now there ruffing it up a bit & then they will start on the metal work.
A friend of mine up here is building a similar '36 for some guy right now, I should ask him if I can take some pics. NICE selection of hammers!!

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 08:35:48 PM »
I wont bore you with another photo, but it worked out like I figured, I stuck a spoon behind the bottom green X in post #6, leaned on it pretty hard and knocked the ridge down just above it, then put a t dolly on the inside of the door bead where it was a little low and gave that a couple good firm smacks, and the series of low spots running up to where the ridge originally was came right out, I didn't even touch them. Things are looking good.

I was going to pick up the frame today, but it rained HARD, so I am picking it up tomorrow, pics to follow.

5windowjim

  • Newbie
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2017, 04:00:41 PM »
 It looks like you have some knowledge as to what the metal is going to do when you hit it.You are making great progress keep us posted. The main difference between a high priced body man and an amiture at home is the price and speed that the work gets done. Doesn't it feel good when you get it right?  Jim

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2017, 05:23:34 PM »
It looks like you have some knowledge as to what the metal is going to do when you hit it.You are making great progress keep us posted. The main difference between a high priced body man and an amiture at home is the price and speed that the work gets done. Doesn't it feel good when you get it right?  Jim
I definitely agree with the "speed" part! :o ;D I am mostly learning as I go, and that's the approach I am trying to take.

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2017, 08:56:28 PM »
Hemideuce came by today and did like an older, more experienced and wiser hot rodder should, shook his head, asked me "so how much power is that thing gonna make again??" told me I was nuts, said "What the hell are you gonna use that thing for?!! You know your wife isn't even gonna get in it, right?" ect ect, and gave me the usual concerned fatherly advice he always does, which I listened carefully to, and will mostly ignore as I always do, probably to my own detriment and physical peril. ;D

At least I was actually working on something when he came. I figure in time, this will become a build thread.
So this is what I started with.Ugh


And this is about two months ago, and an hour in...


And this is about 2-3 hours in...


And this is about 8 hours in and when I picked it up again yesterday...


And this is about 2 hours after HemiDeuce left. This is still pretty much file finished, so theres lots of marks that have to be removed, and there are 3-4 pits I have to braze up before I proceed onto metal finishing and getting it ready for the plater, but after about 14 hours of work, the final shape is there, and I have a peaked Corvair pitman arm! YEA BABY!!






Of course I could have just bought a nice shiny Taiwanese chrome one from the aftermarket for about $75, but then it wouldn't be peaked, and I wouldn't have got to unpack it after its all finished and slick and shiny and comes back from the plater, and knod and smile to myself. :)

Fordors

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2017, 10:04:40 PM »
Nice! In the absence of the "Like" button I'll give it this- 👍
I know the basement floor is down there because it's holding everything up. I just can't see it anymore.

jaded iconoclast

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 10:06:02 PM »
Nice! In the absence of the "Like" button I'll give it this- 👍
And I'll give that a 👍 too! ;D

Fordors

  • Hero Member
Re: pickin' and a'grinnin'
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2017, 10:41:51 PM »
Garage sale find a couple of weeks ago. Fairmount 161 G body hammer, $3.00. Lived a rough life at the hands of a home owner but with some file work and emery paper the damage and heavy dings are gone. A little more work and it's ready for a new life. The handle is a bit worse for the wear but it will remain as a reminder of how bad it once was.
I know the basement floor is down there because it's holding everything up. I just can't see it anymore.